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Wiki 24:Articles for deletion/Special Agent in Charge (disambiguation) talk
Split of this article A quick perusal of will show that whenever this page was split into CTU and FBI, the links weren't updated, so now all the links go to this disambig page. I was going to update them, but I wanted to ask if we really need to split this up? It's an article for a technical term, and much like the agent article can list people from more than one agency, surely? Can we not merge the FBI and CTU parts onto one page?--Acer4666 14:56, May 17, 2011 (UTC) : I was on board with the original move, and still am, because these are two completely different jobs/roles. Sure they are similar and share the same name, but they're outright different. And regarding the agent page, I think it's the stupidest article in the project. We might as well have articles for eyes, shoes, shirt collars, ties, pool repairmen, desks, and eyebrows. If the content must exist, it should be split into a similar situation: "CTU agent", "Homeland Security agent", etc. 17:10, May 17, 2011 (UTC) :: Are they really completely different jobs? If I remember rightly, FBI pretty much had an equivalent of everything at CTU due to the writers being too scared to change the format of the show. If they are, then the FBI page needs a bit of expansion on exactly how it differs from the CTU role. Also, there are currently only two people on the FBI page (and the consensus on the talk page is to remove Renee), so I don't think the FBI page is article-worthy. --Acer4666 19:32, May 17, 2011 (UTC) : The FBI was hugely different from CTU in both capability and philosophy, remember in season 7? They only had real similarities in purview and capability when FBI connected the CTU computers on Taylor's order. Even if this weren't true, they are two different jobs for two different groups. "President" can also refer to the president of a chess club but we wouldn't combine those. 20:29, May 17, 2011 (UTC) :: I agree the FBI and CTU are different, but the position is the same. Much like the White house and and the CTU building are different, but we agreed to put the info on their situation rooms together. :: As for the president of the chess club example - atm, "president" redirects to the american president, which really it shouldn't. It should link to a page describing what a president (of whatever) does, and then that page can link to President of the United States, President of the Russian Federation, etc. If some of the country-specific president titles don't deserve pages of their own (like only having one person ever doing the role on 24), they would get a mention on the "president" article, but no more. :: I'd suggest having a "special agent in charge" article about the term, and then, if you think it needs it, a separate page for the CTU one. But Larry Moss can be mentioned on the generic article, not have his own page--Acer4666 20:38, May 17, 2011 (UTC) :::Sorry, never got round to finishing my point about the chess club - if a president of chess club was mentioned on 24, then it would go on the "president" article--Acer4666 20:42, May 17, 2011 (UTC) :: Actually let me change the example to Steven Robert Simmons (SRS), a real "president", instead of using made-up examples. (Using fake examples for arguments anymore is ridiculous because the show is over.) In short, the project cannot accommodate your idea because of the disambig policy. The article for simply "Special Agent in Charge" is a redirect to the dab page, as it should be. We can't have Larry's job listed on a "generic article" because this is needed to point to both different jobs. :: And "President" points directly to the US President article because that's the longstanding precedent out of necessity for the project. It's the obvious exception that's been around forever. Other presidents (Russian, Kamistani, and Omicron Corporationian) are mentioned so relatively infrequently that if we were to cause "President" to be a redirect to a dab page, every link to "President" Palmers, Logan, and Taylor would be needlessly broken. And I'm not worried about the work it would take to change thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of such broken links, because that could be done. It's the point that you're making about a "chess club" president being mentioned on a generic "president" article. There is no such thing as a generic president article, and there cannot be one. Just a dab page if you were willing to undo the sensible precedent we have and do all the work to correct every instance of President to President of the United States. Unless you do actually mean "dab" when you say "generic"? 15:05, May 18, 2011 (UTC) :::Hmmm, this is a hard one. I do see where you're coming from. But I think the "president" situation is similar to what we have for CTU, CTU Los Angeles, and CTU New York. An article for the whole of CTU, then links to the more specific CTU's in different places. I know "CTU" is an organisation in itself, but the word "president" is a piece of terminology in itself that is used by characters (although whenever it is spoken it is being used to indicate a specific role, the same could be said for "CTU"). My way is the way wikipedia does it, and I often like to think of this as a wikipedia for the 24-world. :::The other thing is what I've been trying to do for the CTU rooms. These names of rooms have to be for the general term, as opposed to specific rooms, due to the fact that 3 different CTU buildings were used in the series. The other alternative would be to disambig them for before Day 3, Day 3, after Day 3, Day 8, even split CTU Los Angeles building into two articles. Now this is linked to the discussion - we're gonna end up with Special Agent in Charge's Office, for the general term (which will include Larry Moss's office), then a split article for Special agent in charge, which isn't very consistent! :::As I say this is a tricky thing, but I don't think it goes directly against the disambiguation policy (due to the agent, president, and CTU situations). However if we do keep it like you say, I think we should make this yet another exception (in addition to those 3) in order to save updating all of these links, (ie have "special agent in charge" redirect to the CTU page, then have a link to the FBI one). :::PS when I said "generic", I meant a generic page that would replace, and do the job of, a dab page. :::PPS love the word "corporationian"!--Acer4666 15:36, May 18, 2011 (UTC) : I completely agree with your last post here, Acer. I think it's fine to keep both version on this one page, rather than separate pages, but if we do do separate pages, there still should be a generic article like Wikipedia's "President" and our "CTU" articles. I also wouldn't be opposed to another DAB exception for the CTU SAiC if we go with three articles instead of one. --proudhug 22:27, May 19, 2011 (UTC) Reboot Err so what was the decision? For some reason I can't make it through the whole thread. I'm happy with whichever choice. 02:24, November 8, 2011 (UTC) :Hm, I'm not sure. The consensus would seem to be to make a page for the term "special agent in charge", then linking to a different page "special agent in charge (CTU)" from the generic one, as otherwise the page will be a bit big. But the upshot would remain the same - lots of going round changing links to here into links to "special agent in charge (CTU)". How about we make "special agent in charge" just redirect to the CTU specific page, like we do with presidents, and try to detect anny links that should be pointing to the FBI page (which I guess is what you were arguing for above?)--Acer4666 (talk) 19:05, November 8, 2011 (UTC) :: Still not sure if I understand. Just a mental roadblock about this, I guess :( But, what about two separate articles: CTU Special Agent in Charge and FBI Special Agent in Charge? I think this would be a third option, in contrast to keeping them both on the same page, and also in contrast to having them at page names with parentheses like "special agent in charge (CTU)". 06:02, December 14, 2011 (UTC) :::That would be a much more sensible title change. The only issue I am bringing up here is whether FBI special agent in charge is article worthy. I'll bring it up on Talk:Special Agent in Charge (FBI)--Acer4666 (talk) 14:07, December 14, 2011 (UTC)